Thomas Jefferson. The name conjures images of revolutionary ideals and the Declaration of Independence, making him an enduring figure in American history. For generations, he’s been “America’s everyman,” a complex character whose words have inspired leaders from Abraham Lincoln to Ronald Reagan, and shaped our nation’s journey. From the hallowed halls of Monticello to the very foundations of the Library of Congress, Jefferson’s influence is undeniable, with his powerful declarations on liberty echoing through time and inspiring movements worldwide.
Yet, Jefferson’s story is far from simple, revealing a paradoxical figure whose brilliant vision often grappled with deeply personal challenges and the thorny issue of slavery. He was a man of grand ideas and profound contradictions, making him neither purely heroic nor villainous, but profoundly human. Join Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Joseph Ellis, author of American Sphinx, as we delve into the multifaceted character of Thomas Jefferson and explore why his complicated legacy remains so vital to Our American Stories.
📖 Read the Episode Transcript
Speaker 1: And we continue with our American Stories. Thomas Jefferson has become today’s everyman due to his paradoxical nature, and like us, he is neither purely heroic nor a villainous figure. You to tell the story is Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Joseph Ellis, author of American Sphinx: The Character of Thomas Jefferson, and we gathered this audio thanks to the Library of Congress. Let’s take a listen.
00:00:38
Speaker 2: In the Lincoln-Douglas debates, Abraham Lincoln, Stephen Douglas—both Lincoln and Douglas—believe Jefferson agrees with them. When Herbert Hoover runs against Franklin Delano Roosevelt for the presidency of the United States in 1932, both of them think they are Jeffersonians. When Ronald Reagan is elected president, in his inaugural address, who says, “We must pluck a rose from Jefferson’s garden and wear it in our lapels forever.” And William Jefferson Clinton starts his inaugural parade in Monticello. He is America’s everyman. He’s all things to all people, and it’s not just any man who can be everyman. “Hey, do you do that well?” I was asking that question in a context in which the dominant point of view was established by Franklin Roosevelt. In 1943, Franklin Roosevelt rode out of the White House, the limo, went to the National Archives, and he picked up the portable desk that Jefferson allegedly used to write the first draft of the Declaration. It was a desk custom-made for him by a former slave. Whereon, in the third week of June of 1776, that the second-floor apartment of Seventh and Market Street, he wrote the magic words of American history. And they are the magic words of American history. These 55 words are the most important words in American and maybe in modern world history. If you’re looking for a secret to the wellspring, this is it. These words mean so much and different things to different people. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these rights are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among men, deriving their wetherlone justification.” I got it wrong every time I get it wrong, but it is, you know, like, think about this, you know, like when Ho Chi Minh wrote the Constitution for Vietnam in 1946, how does it begin? “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.” Now, later on, it says, “Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your change.” So it’s a nice blend of Jefferson and Marx, you know. And when the women gathered together at Seneca Falls in 1848, how did they begin? “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men and women are created.” I think Jefferson: men—men and women, don’t you? Yes, what he really meant was that all of us that are human beings possess a soul and that separates us from other creatures as human beings. And if American history were a casino, nobody that’s bet on Jefferson, as far as I can tell, has ever lost. You want him. He’s like an ace in the hole. You want him—right until now, maybe you don’t want him. The Democratic Party is not so sure. The Democratic Party in Ohio, as well as several other states, have just said that they’re going to drop Jefferson’s name from the annual Jefferson-Jackson Dinner, going to jack to drop Jackson’s name too. Jackson did the Indians bed, and Jefferson did the Black Man bad. Now, I don’t see anybody with any stone masons up there ready to knock Jefferson’s image off Mount Rushmore. But there are people that have actually written books calling for the Jefferson Memorial to be replaced by a memorial to Frederick Douglass. And if you are a historian and you want to get a Ph.D., and like I had a wonderful student named Chandra (I won’t tell your last name), she went to Harvard, and she said, “I want to write about Jefferson.” They said, “What? You can’t do that! He’s the dead, wettest mail you can possibly imagine.” You can finish your career if you’ve finished—if you do that—and that’s, you know. So, within the profession, there is a set of assumptions, and a lot of people are playing their politics on the past—a lot of political correct nonsense. People are doing their political isometric exercises against Thomas Jefferson, and I don’t think that’s a good idea. And I want to conclude with trying to make the point I want to end with in terms of the occasion for this moment: it’s 1815, and Thomas Jefferson agrees to sell his books to what becomes the Library of Congress for $23,950. He makes this contribution, and the seeds that he plants become the greatest library in the world. This is good news. Okay, now you could go the other way. However, why is Jefferson selling these books in the first place? When he dies, he’s going to be about $10 million in debt. Now, here is the thought which I suggested we mention. People wanted him to free his slaves. Right? He owned about 200 slaves: 100 of them in Monticello, another, and another plantation down the road 90 miles. Jefferson didn’t own his slaves; his creditors owned his slaves.
00:07:38
Speaker 1: He couldn’t free him.
00:07:40
Speaker 2: But in the six months after the Ghules descend upon Monticello, it’s dismembered of all the furnishings, and 130 African Americans whom he had promised would not be sold down the river are sold down the. And that’s not just a euphemism. If you get sold to Mississippi or Louisiana, you’re in deep trouble. Your lifespan is very short. And there were promises he made that he couldn’t keep. So that’s the other way to tell the story—that the gift is itself an indication of his bankruptcy. And then you could say his moral bankruptcy and his inability to take a strong stand against slavery in his latter years. Here’s where I want to leave you, and I hope this prompts some questions. We need imperfect, flawed founders. In fact, if they were perfect, what in Heaven’s name would we have to learn from them? Let’s leave Jefferson in the conversation.
00:08:57
Speaker 1: And a terrific job on the editing enduction by our own Greg Hangler. And you’ve been listening to the Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Joseph Ellis, author of American Sphinx: The Character of Thomas Jefferson. He gave this speech in, of all places, the very place Jefferson sold his books to: the Library of Congress. Special thanks to all that the folks do at the Library of Congress. If you ever get a chance, visit the building and just imagine: in the Lincoln-Douglas debates, both men believe Jefferson agreed with them, and the same with Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton, and the same throughout history until relatively recently. And the fact of the matter is, he was America’s everyman, and he wrote those 55 words that may be the most important. And not just political history, and not just modern history, but world history—the story of America’s everyman, Thomas Jefferson. Here are now American Stories.
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