Join us as we celebrate a true giant of American television: Johnny Carson. For thirty years, from 1962 to 1992, Carson reigned supreme as the host of The Tonight Show, creating countless unforgettable moments and cementing his place as a comedy legend. Tonight, we dive into the fascinating story behind one of his most beloved and iconic characters, the mysterious and hilarious Karnak the Magnificent.
From his signature turban and cape to his uncanny ability to divine sealed answers, Karnak captivated Tonight Show audiences night after night. But what was the secret behind this timeless skit, and what challenges did it pose for the show’s writers? Author Mark Malkoff, who wrote In Love with Johnny Carson, shares the surprising history and lasting legacy of a routine that etched itself into the heart of American humor.
📖 Read the Episode Transcript
00:00:45 Speaker 2: Here’s Mark. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a very exciting night for us. Not only are all the members of our NBC family here with us, we also have a great visitor from the East, the famous Seer Sage, all knowing, all seeing, all omniscient, and former master of ceremonies at a house of pies. Ladies and gentlemen, Karnak the Magnificent!
00:01:08 Speaker 3: Johnny’s most famous character was Karnak the Magnificent. Simsala bim!
00:01:13 Speaker 2: Welcome, welcome, welcome. Once again, we have a special, special NBC family in our audience tonight, anxious to see and hear your great wisdom. I have the envelopes here. They’ve been hermetically sealed, kept in a mayonnaise jar and Bob Howard’s port since noon today. No one knows the contents of these envelopes, but you, in your incredibly divine way, will ascertain the answers without ever before seeing the question.
00:01:40 Speaker 3: Is that right, sir?
00:01:41 Speaker 4: That’s impossible?
00:01:42 Speaker 2: Oh, yes, of course, of course! That’s what I’ll do. The first envelope.
00:01:46 Speaker 4: May I have absolute silence, please, as I…
00:01:48 Speaker 2: Divine the… yes, hermetically sealed.
00:01:50 Speaker 4: Yes, I understand that. I will divine the answer, even though the question has been sealed in the…
00:01:54 Speaker 2: Meaning, no one could even open it up if they wanted it, except you.
00:02:00 Speaker 4: It’s true.
00:02:02 Speaker 3: Johnny would hold envelopes up to his head, and he wore a cape and a turban. He would state what the answer was to the question. He would open the envelope and then read what the question was.
00:02:15 Speaker 4: Three Dog Night. What’s a bad night for a tree?
00:02:26 Speaker 2: A losing streak?
00:02:28 Speaker 3: A losing sneak.
00:02:33 Speaker 4: Describe a man running naked after chugging brune juice. And…
00:02:38 Speaker 3: It was very, very hard for the writers. Johnny thought it was a night off for the writers. But the writers all told me it was the hardest thing that they had to write. They told me that when they were flying in an airplane and it was crashing down, that their one comforting thought was that I would never have to write another Karnak the Magnificent again. Johnny Carson’s writers have told me to this day, and it’s been decades, that they still have dreams — anxiety dreams — where they’re writing Karnacs.
00:03:04 Speaker 4: Okay, a thousand clowns. A thousand clowns is what I said. Who put together the NBC fall schedule?
00:03:19 Speaker 3: Johnny Carson purchased the rights to Karnak in 1950 when he was local in Los Angeles. A gentleman named Carl Winston in Collier’s Magazine had written the word “quiz” backwards, and he was the one that would state what the answer was, and then you had to come up with the question. And Johnny thought this would be a good comedy routine, and he bought the rights to it for $200. Little did he know that Steve Allen’s writers, and this happens in comedy, sometimes come up with the same ideas, and Steve Allen on The Tonight Show, when he was the first host of The Tonight Show, did “The Question Answer Man,” which was essentially that routine. Johnny Carson knew that when he got The Tonight Show and it was national, that people would say that he stole this routine, so for two years he did not do it. He waited until the public was clearly behind him and NBC was supporting him that he started doing Karnak the Magnificent, and it was by far his most popular routine. Steve Allen years later would accuse Carson of stealing it, but as Johnny would say, and Carl Winston said many times, that Johnny was the rightful owner of the bit. Carson loved when one of his Karnacs didn’t go well. There was always one or two jokes where the audience would groan, and that’s when Carson would do what was called the Carson Saver. He would say to the audience, “May you…” and then some sort of insult to the audience, which they loved.
00:04:41 Speaker 4: UCLA. UCLA. Well, what happens when there is no any smug made this sewers of entrepreneur back into your six o’clock news?
00:05:04 Speaker 3: At the very end of the bit, Ed McMahon would say, “I hold in my hand the final envelope. I hold in my hand the last…” and they would hit the applause, and the audience would cheer that they were excited that this painful bit was going to be over, but that was all part of the act. And then Johnny would do another audio Carnac saver and make fun of the audience.
00:05:24 Speaker 4: Now your only daughter going to syndication with an army camp.
00:05:28 Speaker 3: There was something that the audience has always looked forward to, when Johnny would shine. In the late 1960s, a singer named Tiny Tim debuted on The Tonight Show.
00:05:43 Speaker 4: Very since here, it’s different.
00:05:48 Speaker 2: Oh, really? He’s different? What, he’s different?
00:05:52 Speaker 4: Yes, this would be like a… but.
00:05:54 Speaker 2: This is not the day and age of the ordinary run of the mill, and he’s certainly not ordinary or run of the mill.
00:06:00 Speaker 4: Right. Would you welcome, please?
00:06:01 Speaker 2: Tiny Tim.
00:06:04 Speaker 3: His appearance caused a mini riot at The Tonight Show. Tiny Tim would play a ukulele and had this high falsetto voice, long straggly hair. Oh, that the mere appearance of him was shocking to the public. And the first time he went on Johnny Carson’s Show, Johnny couldn’t tell if Tiny Tim was doing a character — this was him. And after talking to him for a few minutes, he figured out that this was genuine. This is who Tiny Tim was.
00:06:39 Speaker 4: Are you… that, that’s the damna Jack I’ve ever seen!
00:06:53 Speaker 1: And you’ve been listening to Mark Malkoff tell some stories about characters and guests that may Johnny Carson, Johnny Carson, and one of them, of course, Karnak the Magnificent. I knew when I was a kid, sometimes, well, I’d get woken up from my sleep to see Karnak. My parents knew I’d loved Karnak that much. Who knew that his writers had anxiety about writing that skit? How hard, how difficult it was! And then, of course, we just heard about Tiny Tim. We’ll hear more, I’m sure, more of the story of Johnny Carson’s characters, and in the end, The Johnny Carson Show. Here on Our American Stories.
00:07:34 Speaker 1: This is Lee Habib, and this is Our American Stories, and all of our history stories are brought to us by our generous sponsors, including Hillsdale College, where students go to learn all the things that are beautiful in life and all the things that matter in life. If you can’t get to Hillsdale, Hillsdale will come to you with their free and terrific online courses. Go to Hillsdale.edu. That’s Hillsdale.edu. Can we continue with Our American Stories and the story of Johnny Carson? Characters he brought to life, and characters he brought on stage. Let’s pick up where we last left off on the subject of Tiny Tim with Mark Malkoff, author of In Love with Johnny Carson.
00:08:27 Speaker 3: Take it away, Mark. And the audience couldn’t get enough of this man.
00:08:33 Speaker 2: It was.
00:08:33 Speaker 3: It was absolutely shocking at the time, and Johnny didn’t make fun of Tiny Tim. The audience would laugh at Johnny’s reactions, and just that this, this man, who was extremely talented, who had admirers from everyone from the Beatles to Bob Dylan, that were impressed with Tiny Tim. That he was an actually really solid musician, but just his appearance and his high voice was something that the audiences couldn’t get enough of. So Tiny Tim would go on Johnny’s show routinely, and he became one of the biggest stars in America. He did a book siting in Philadelphia, and 10,000 people showed up. And that is when he met who became his bride, his fiancée, Miss Vicky. And they went on Johnny’s show, and Johnny had the idea, which had never been done on a late night show: “While you’re engaged, you’re going to be getting married, why don’t you get married on our show?” And Tiny Tim, without asking Miss Vicky, said yes. He liked the idea of getting a free wedding, and he was very much into getting as much publicity as possible. So in December of 1969, Tiny Tim got married to Miss Vicky on The Tonight Show. It’s the hottest ticket in town. It was black tie. Everyone wanted to be in the show.
00:09:49 Speaker 4: Well, I can’t think of any better to it than a very simple window which you both held done. Great happiness in…
00:09:53 Speaker 3: Your marriage. Tiny Tim getting married on the show, that was huge. No, I was in high school at the time, and it was… it was the classic thing of what happened on The Tonight Show. Everybody talked about it. The show was the highest-rated show in the history of television, next to the Moon Landing. Forty-five million people tuned in to this wedding, which was the biggest event. It was front-page news. Eighty-five percent of all television sets at the time were tuned to the Tiny Tim wedding. They saved the wedding until the very end of the show to make people stay up until 12:50 a.m., even though they had work the next day. And Tiny Tim married Miss Vicki, and it became television history, that many eyeballs on one late night show, and it has never been broken since. Rodney Dangerfield was a struggling comedian. He had been doing nightclubs. He had previously been selling aluminum siding, and he always wanted to be a comedian, and he was very, very funny, but a struggling comedian. And one night he had noticed that Johnny Carson did a joke that he had done in a nightclub, and he accused one of Johnny’s writers of stealing the joke. And Rodney Dangerfield wrote a very offensive letter to Johnny Carson, who he had never met, telling Johnny that he was ripping him off and a lot of four-letter words, I can’t say. And Johnny told his comedy booker, “Rodney Dangerfield will never do The Tonight Show.” Rodney Dangerfield started doing Ed Sullivan’s show. It became a big stand-up star. The one show that he needed to do for his career was Johnny Carson’s show. They had a new comedy booker who told Rodney, “I want you to do the Carson Show.” And Rodney said, “I don’t think Johnny will let me on. I think he’ll remember.” He’s like, “No, Johnny, I’m sure he doesn’t remember this.” And sure enough, Johnny said, “He’s not doing the show.” Johnny, one night in the late sixties, was at the Copacabana to see Tony Bennett. And Rodney Dangerfield had been opening up at the Copacabana and saw Johnny and his manager, who Rodney Dangerfield had known. And Rodney went up to Johnny and said, “I’m sorry, I was wrong,” and he got Johnny Carson and his manager. He took them in the service entrance in the kitchen and got them so they didn’t have to wait in line, and they were seated with great spots, and Rodney apologized. That was the thing that got Rodney back on the show to make his debut the first time ever on Carson. But Rodney Dangerfield’s manager was told, “Under no circumstances is Rodney going to sit down with Johnny. He’s going to do stand-up, and he is going to leave.” And then Rodney said, “Well, if he’s going to have that attitude, I’m not going to do it.” His manager said, “Now, Rodney, you need to do this for your career. Just go on and do it.”
00:12:44 Speaker 4: Here are his friends. He got his suit back. Just, just this time, time. And no matter what happens in his life…
00:12:50 Speaker 2: He gets absolutely no respect.
00:12:52 Speaker 4: Would you welcome Rodney Dangerfield!
00:12:56 Speaker 3: Rodney was so funny his first time on Carson that Carson broke his own little… on Rodney Dangerfield over to the couch.
00:13:03 Speaker 5: I tell you, my neighbor… I don’t… I got no respect, either. No respect at all. You kid me, there’s no respect from anybody. That’s the way it works out. I bought some rock poisoner; a girl asked me, “If I wrap it up, you’re gonna eat it here?” And I was an ugly kid too. I worked in a pet store, and that people got asking how big I’d…
00:13:21 Speaker 3: Get. Rodney Dangerfield, with somebody, normally a comedian who would do 25 jokes. Rodney Dangerfield, every Carson appearance, did 50 new jokes: 25 jokes doing stand-up that needs it with Johnny down on the panel, and do 25.
00:13:38 Speaker 5: More. Always something new, generations. So my dog too. She gives me trouble. I got a female dog.
00:13:45 Speaker 4: You know.
00:13:45 Speaker 5: I tried to mate it. She wants 50 biscuits.
00:13:53 Speaker 2: Kid! Oh my God, okay.
00:14:03 Speaker 4: Female. No matter what the species, right? Every, every day.
00:14:06 Speaker 5: There’s something, Johnny. And tonight’s been a terrible day. Terrible day. I get up, this one of my push-ups, in the nude. I didn’t see the mouse trap. Yeah, I can’t take the pressure. Johnny is bad for my health, your health. That was time for health of any boom.
00:14:30 Speaker 2: Yeah, that’s the one. My health is fair. Head taking me very bad.
00:14:34 Speaker 5: I’m not kidding. I’m getting old. I know I’m getting old. Well, my last birthday cake looked like a prairie fire.
00:14:44 Speaker 2: You know how it is.
00:14:45 Speaker 5: I know I’m getting my age. I want two girls at once, you know. And if I fall asleep, they got each other to talk to you. What’s now with do?
00:15:05 Speaker 2: I assume your crew?
00:15:12 Speaker 3: Looking back, in a minute. Rodney Dangerfield became the best stand-up comedian to do The Tonight Show. His appearances became legendary on YouTube. They have millions and millions of views. It became a blueprint on how a comedian did The Tonight Show and how prepared they were. Rodney Dangerfield would not go on the Carson Show unless he knew he had 50 killer jokes. Eventually, in the early ’80s, Rodney Dangerfield one night helped Johnny Carson home after Carson had too much to drink at a comedy club. Johnny didn’t remember it at all, but Rodney had helped Johnny get home. Rodney was very upset that Johnny never said, “Thank you for helping me back,” and Rodney refused to do the show for eight years, until Johnny’s final months on the show, where finally, after Johnny asked and Rodney was promoting a movie, he finally got nostalgic and went back on with Johnny. And it was like eight years, and that hadn’t happened, and all was good. Rodney Dangerfield’s work lives on on YouTube and is still to this day some of the funniest stand-up you will ever see. And a…
00:16:24 Speaker 1: Terrific job on the production, editing, and storytelling by our own Greg Hangler, and a special thanks to Mark Malkoff, author of In Love with Johnny Carson, One Obsessive Fan’s Journey to Find the Genius Behind the Legend. Go to Bookstores Anywhere, or go to Amazon or the usual suspects and get the book. You won’t put it down. In my goodness, we learned so much about Carson’s use of both characters and his ability to launch or take advantage of talent to make not only his show must-see TV, but to launch the careers of salute talents like Rodney Dangerfield. And it’s so remarkable to think that this guy, in his fifties, Dangerfield, was out there selling aluminum siding and struggling. And what do you know, those guest hits on Carson, in addition to The Ed Sullivan Show, made him well who he is. And you can go on YouTube and just, well, just check it out. You will. If you’ve not or not familiar with Dangerfield’s appearances on The Carson Show, you know him from movie appearances, but they’re everywhere. They’re all over YouTube with millions upon millions of views. They’ll live forever, and Carson as straight man, because that’s what you learn here. Carson is straight man, even in Karnak the Magnificent. How he dealt with silence, how he dealt with dramatic pauses — a master craftsman. The story of Karnak the Magnificent, Tiny Tim, and Rodney Dangerfield. Here on Our American Stories.
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